October 17, 2017

Today you should read: Proverbs 21

Alright fellow CPC Jumpstarters, let’s try something a little different today. This may totally fail and I may not have a job tomorrow but I’m feeling a little risky and noticed that this chapter has some really good, potentially hot button bible bombs in it so I’m going to throw out a few grenades.

Here are the rules of warfare, I’m going to throw out a few verses from the chapter below and ask a challenging question in light of that Proverb. Comment below with your thoughts but only do so with a few things in mind:

  1. Do not be divisive in your comments and answers. We are one body in Christ and there are open-handed and closed-handed issues. Many of the verses and questions I’ll be asking will lead to open-handed answers and thoughts. Don’t let your own personal conviction turn into a law.
  2. I’ll take the day to moderate as best as I can. I’m writing this before the initial post date so I’m not sure what my schedule holds for that day outside of a few discipleships but I will do my best to comment, control and put down church discipline for anyone getting out of hand. 😉
  3. Let’s remember the rules of hermeneutics here. One Proverb out of potential context does not speak for the entirety of the Bible and it’s initial purpose which is revealing the Gospel through Creation, Fall, Redemption and Consummation. I may even ask some questions that are leading to a discussion that the verse is not implying in it’s context. If so, prove it.

Alright now, fingers crossed and here we go.

  1. There are many NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem before their games and this has caused a very divisive conversation between not only politicians but Christians. Below are two articles where conservative, evangelical pastors state their case for each side.

Against Kneeling

For Kneeling 

Without giving my opinion, I’d probably say that I’ve met more Christians in agreement with the “Against Kneeling” view. However, in light of the Proverb below, can one make a Biblical case for God’s justice over Country’s sacrifice?

To do righteousness and justice is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Proverbs 21:3

Share why or why not being respectful of the potential other view.

  1. There’s almost daily Facebook outrage over local Lexington “pan-handlers” at interstate exits and entrances begging for money and even operating a planned out deceptive scheme as detailed in this link.

I’ll be honest if I didn’t say that I don’t get annoyed at times when someone who is homeless, smelling of alcohol wanders into a church service asking for money for gas or food but refusing to take any type of help outside of unaccountable cash. If we’re honest, these attitudes have led most Christians to a general distrust and if we’re completely honest, a disdain toward the homeless and poor. However, in light of the Proverb below, what does this mean about our attitudes of pan-handlers, the homeless and the poor.

Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself call out and not be answered. Proverbs 21:13

Share below being respectful of each other’s comments.

By: Erik Koliser — West Campus Pastor

Author: Center Point Church

A multi-campus church in central Kentucky. Our mission is to take everyone we meet one step closer to becoming a true disciple of Jesus Christ.

11 thoughts on “October 17, 2017”

  1. Brother Erik,
    You’ve given me much to think about at 6:30 on a Tuesday morning and I’m not sure I can process it all just now. I admit that my reaction to the NFL kneeling controversy has been mostly negative toward the players. My father served in the US Army in Germany from 1946-49 and saw the devastation brought about by Nazi Germany. From a very early age dad taught me to stand at attention with my hat removed and respectfully sing the national anthem as a tribute to the many men & women who preserved, protected, & defended our great country. Having said that, I try my best to understand the frustration many African Americans feel regarding social injustices. I’ll never know how it feels to be an African American man and believe I’m being watched more closely by the police solely based on my skin color.

    I pray that God will give me eyes to see, ears to hear, and a godly heart to respond appropriately in all situations. Clearly our country is still deeply divided racially & politically. It would do us all well to dial down the rhetoric and listen with understanding hearts. #PepperTryingToBeSaltAndLight

    1. Today’s jumpstart is certainly a tough one if you’re used to the morning read before work with all off the links attached and potential controversy. 😬

      Mike, you’re response was a great explanation behind both worldviews which is a good start for both sides for it seems like each one is just screaming over the other without understanding the history or values between each side which Christians from both sides have shown with their own biblical reasoning. Thanks for commenting.

  2. Erik, I’m in agreement with Mike, you sure have me thinking this morning. My first reaction to NFL kneeling controversial, was why are people calling this disrespect, kneeling is a symbol in it self, I call it direspect, in a respectable kind of way. I’m from the old school I was taught to stand and be very respectful of our flag. It hits really to the heart, when I watched my son Andrew graduate from the Marines and served two tours in Iraq. So Erik, my question is why can’t it be considered, by kneeling be respectable to our flag by not being disrespectable to their race.

    1. Wanda, if I understand your question right, you’re asking why kneeling is not considered respectful still? If so, you’re at least correct in assessing that it’s an attempt to reach a middle ground where those players are trying to show respect to the flag/military while standing up for justice in what they believe is an injust country concerning racial relations. Here’s an article showing that attempt. http://www.snopes.com/veteran-kaepernick-take-a-knee-anthem/ Also just because they and some military veterans interpret it that way does not mean that others will which has led us to this continued division/controversy.

  3. Here’s my two cents worth: I believe it is within the players’ Christian liberty to protest in such a way, as I can find no scriptural prohibition and can certainly find a scriptural basis for it. HOWEVER, using Proverbs 16:23, 16:21, and 12:18 as a basis, I find the protest to be unwise if the players’ intent is to persuade. You cannot easily persuade someone when your argument offends. And even though the gospel message is by its very nature offensive to the unbeliever, even here we are commanded to present it with “gentleness and respect” 1 peter 3:15. And as further support, I have not read one article nor heard one conversation where someone said they were persuaded to change their minds by what the players have done. I have observed the contrary, positions seem hardened all around. If the players’ intent is in fact not to persuade but to offend, then it seems to me that there is plenty of scriptural support for why that again seems unwise.

    1. Chuck, you make a very good point in intentions and although I’m no prophet, I do believe that intentions seems to have changed or shifted when the president put his 2 cents in. It seemed like the intentions shifted from standing up against injustice to a standing up against the presidents comments. Also thank you for the scriptural support backing up your views. I also like how you pointed it back to a wisdom issue. Good stuff.

  4. Being from a family that is blended ethnically, I have seen some of my grown African children unfairly judged by police officers. They weren’t disobeying the law, but their actions were misinterpreted. However, I can’t say that if my Caucasian sons were seen doing the same thing that they wouldn’t have been judged unfairly.
    Hmmm, so why am I ready to say the police were unfair? I appreciate the police. I sure don’t want that job. They have a society that is getting farther from courtesy and more entitled. People who have grown up without discipline are now adults dealing with real authorities.
    We all have the feeling that we’re entitled to better than what we’ve received in certain circumstances.
    But Christ is our example of returning good for evil. Even perceived evils.
    How do we turn others thoughts from what they deserve from society to what they deserve from the Lord? We all deserve Hell. If people can understand their personal need for repentance and God’s redemption, then society can be changed one heart at a time. That task seems insurmountable. Where sin abounds, grace all the more abounds.

      1. What are the ways of turning conversations with people who are impassioned about these topics toward an opportunity to share the Gospel?

  5. Great question Kaitlyn. 1. I think you did a great job of doing that in your initial comments reminding us of Jesus’ humility and grace in the Gospel amongst entitlement and what we “deserve.” 2. I have found it best to point people the the Gospel in such situations by helping reveal people’s potential idols and spiritual longings in the debate. When people are this impassioned over a cause instead of Christ alone, it usually reveals an idol in God’s place. This article by an Athletes in Action/CRU ministry staff person does a good job in showing such extremes on both sides with the debate https://athletesinaction.org/underreview/what-you-might-be-missing-in-the-kneeling-debate#.WeYx7EzMxsM I don’t believe everything they says but i thought he did a good job showing how far both sides views were of the flag in the first place. Anything can become a potential savior, whether it’s patriotism or social justice, and we must be careful in finding our identity in such things over Christ alone. I’ve also been able to point others to the understanding of each side through Biblical convictions and a worldview. Helping people understand they feel this way because of a deep rooted worldview of what God says in His Word and the new life we receive in the Gospel asking people if their motives in the debate is rooted in the same and if not, what are they rooted in and what’s the end goal and if that end goal aligns with the God of the Bible?

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